This post is the first of two covering interviewing from 2 different perspectives: as the interviewee & the interviewer. It seems like there’s probably (at least!) one post a week on reddit’s /r/dataengineering asking for advice about getting a DE job, and many of the posts seem to hover around dealing with/getting past impostor syndrome. So I figure I’d share my experiences on both sides of the interview table. These are some simple rules that should help you find yourself in the candidate “hot seat” or even considering if not accepting a new position. There’s quite a bit that I don’t mention below that are just considered “normal” or “typical” (such as showing up for interviews in a suit) that still very much apply.
Rule #1: Always keep your resume up-to-date
Whatever you need to do up front to lessen the amount of effort to submit your resume, directly translates into you applying to more jobs. This also means keeping your profiles up to date on the job sites. Maintain copies of your resume in both Word & PDF formats, too. [Hint: the best time to update your resume is when you start a new job.]
Rule #2a: Always look for new opportunities
You never know when your next opportunity is going to fall into your lap. And it’s always easier (read: less pressure, less stressful) to find a job when you already have one than when you’re out of work. Apply to anything & everything that you might be interested in as there are no penalties for applying to jobs you think you may not be qualified for. (Read that last sentence a few more times.)
Rule #2b: Look for jobs that use technologies and/or industries that you already have experience with
All but one professional technical job I’ve ever had was due to someone at the company who hired me being familiar with somewhere that I worked before and/or the technology used at a previous job. My most current job, where I (asked for &) took a significant pay increase, was because I had both highly relevant pharmacy/healthcare experience and they use an ETL tool that I had significant experience using at a previous job.
Rule #3: Learn how to get past the “robot overlords” & get noticed by humans
This one is without a doubt the hardest part for most people. Be honest. Don’t put anything on your resume that you can’t comfortably discuss (more on that below). However, a human will never ever see your resume if it doesn’t contain some sizable fraction of the keywords they are looking for. What are they looking for, you ask? The answer is shockingly obvious: the exact same keywords they have in their job description! While tailoring your resume to every job submission is a definite pain, finding ways to easily but sensibly inject more applicable keywords for a potential future employer, the more likely you’ll get past the “robot overlords” (aka algorithms that pre-filter candidate submissions). Also, recall Rule #2a “there are no penalties for applying”, so guess what? There are also no penalties for submitting different versions of you resume. Your goal here is to get your resume in front of a human.
Rule #4: Interviewing is a skill that takes practice
Assuming that you are already working, the easiest way to practice is to interview candidates yourself. (Interviewing is also a skill worth developing, mind you.) Put time in asking the kinds of questions that will help you determine whether someone is going to be capable of doing that job. And then spend the same–if not more–time actually answering your own questions. Find meetups of people working in that field & pick their brain to learn what kinds of questions you might be asked.
Doesn’t matter if it’s a phone screen or in-person interview, give yourself plenty of time before & after an upcoming resume so that for that block of time you have only one thing on your mind: the interview. It can be going over some notes, or going over the company’s website, or just closing your eyes & meditating. Forget about the outside world. Preparation is the best way to handle a situation that you feel unsure of (more on that in rules #5a & #5b below). Be calm. Be focused.
And be prepared (post-phone screen) for some kind of technical practical. It may be on a whiteboard in person (terrible but many companies still do this) or an online based quiz or it may be a “thought experiment” where you walk someone through how you would approach a particular scenario. Most if not all are often designed to be difficult to finish in the allotted time. Therefore it’s based more on how far you get than completing the assignment/questions/scenario. If they let you use other tools to search for help and/or ask questions for clarification, use them when you get stuck! They want to see your thought process & troubleshooting abilities. Also, many of these practicals do not need to be completed in any order–so if you get stuck in one place, set it aside & work on another item or element, and come back to the hard part(s) after you’ve regained your confidence. Better yet, seek out the easiest parts first & get them out of the way regardless of order…after all, that’s probably how you’d do it “in the real world” right?! Lastly, SQL is the universal language of DE. Don’t get hung up on not knowing how to use some ETL tool. Think how you would solve the problem with SQL, and that should guide you towards a potential solution.
Rule #5a: Be confident in what you know; be confident in what you don’t know
Again, be honest. Give good, thoughtful answers to all questions. If you know a concept or technology then don’t be afraid to say so. However, if you do not know something, there are 3 magic words that you should not be afraid to say: “I don’t know.” If you just can’t bring yourself to admit that to stranger(s), then find some phrasing that you are comfortable with. For instance, there are things that I have done on my own time that I’d never done professionally, like using Docker. Therefore, I admitted in an interview “I have not used Docker professionally but I understand it conceptually & have tinkered with it for personal projects.”
Rule #5b: Have your answers ready for the difficult questions–and the good questions too!
We all have (perceived) “skeletons in our closet”, whether it’s having a job you were fired from, a sizable gap of time missing on your resume, etc. Items like that will almost certainly come up in an interview. Don’t try to hide from those incidents–it won’t work–but you can have answers prepared for those moments. Don’t take the question personally, instead give them the answer that you’ve prepared for. Once you have solid answers to those awkward questions, leveraging the same technique for “good” questions can provide the same benefits in an interview!
Rule #7: Know what you are worth & be ready to negotiate
Negotiating is hard, intimidating, awkward, & makes most people very uncomfortable. However, no one wants to get taken advantage of. Like anything else that’s hard & intimidating, this can be improved with some help & practice. A couple books about negotiating that I recommend are Chris Voss’s Never Split The Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It and Start With No: The Negotiating Tools That The Pros Don’t Want You To Know by Jim Camp. And be ready for this situation at all times. I found myself negotiating my salary requirements at the tail end of the phone screen with my current employer! (That’s highly unusual as it’s more likely to happen near the end of a first or second in-person interview.)
But if I had to boil down negotiating to 4 simple tips, they would be:
- Figure out what the job you want is worth.
- Remain calm & don’t take anything personally.
- Use silence to your advantage. They might be more experienced, but it’s human nature for someone to always want to speak. Keep your mouth shut (& your facial expressions in check) for as long as you can.
- Do what you can to make the other side reveal their offer first. When pressed to (finally) share what you want, give them a range. And not just any range, but a range with odd numbers. (Voss’s book explains why giving a range with odd numbers works…and I can assure you, that it indeed works!)
Example of an odd salary range
Let’s say you want an annual salary of $80,000. You don’t just say “I want to get paid 80 thousand!” because it comes off as demanding. Instead offer them this: “I am looking to make from $78,397 to $82,649.” Giving them a range presents your offer as a choice of some amount over a ~$5,000 range. Could they be cheap & give you the low end of your range? Sure. But most employers like to start a new employee at nice round numbers…and the rounder, the better. So what’s the “roundest” number in that range? $80,000. You got what you wanted! [Bonus: prepare/memorize that range ahead of time–like rule #5b–so that you can express it calmly & confidently.]
Rule #8: Show up prepared for interviews–and interview them too!
Do as many things as possible to reduce your anxiety (that’s legal). Give yourself plenty of time to get to the interview on time, silence your damn phone(!), and bring a notepad, pen, & list of questions with you.
Especially the questions. You want to offload the burden of remembering a bunch of questions in your head. And while a fair number of your questions might come up from them asking you, others might also be answered in casual conversation. However, having a list of questions of everything you want to know about the job should be checked off the list so that you understand the expectations & environment that come with the job.
And there is one question that you need to ask & it must be the absolutely final thing you ask is this:
“Based on my resume & meeting with me today, what concerns do you have that may be holding you back from offering me this position?”
This is a magic question that invites the interviewer to speak their honest opinions of you. Then you have 2 things to do:
- Shut up. Let them speak. And absolutely, positively resist every fiber in your body to defend what they might say.
- Write down their comments right there in the moment. You will probably forget if you try to do this even a few minutes later. Plus, it makes you look serious & organized. Then when you get home, iterate over their feedback so you know what to improve or not do in your next interviews.
Rule #9: Resumes & job interviews are like dating…iterate, iterate, iterate and practice, practice, practice!
Most everyone has taken a job where they got paid less than what they were worth. Most everyone has had terrible previous work experiences, whether a co-worker, a manager, or the entire company culture. Fewer people have had a job that they hop out of bed every morning for. Well, just like dating to find that complimentary significant other, job hunting requires noticing any red flags as early as possible, figuring out what your wants & needs are, and continually improving yourself to handle larger opportunities. It may take multiple tries or there might be times that you feel like it’s never going to happen, but you cannot let that stop you. Figuring out what you need to improve upon, whether personal or technical, and then actually doing it better is key. That’s why it’s so important to ask that interview question in rule #8! Because once you leave the interview, you can forget about getting any quality feedback from the prospective employer.
Conclusion
So if it isn’t clear by now, let me say it one more time: Preparation, education, and iteration. Prepare for interviews by having answers to as many questions about your career as possible so that you avoid becoming flustered or lose your confidence. Educate yourself on what you need to know for the job & be a lifelong student–especially in any IT-related field where things are continually changing. And iterate often by tweaking your resume, getting better at negotiating, and answering a possible employer’s questions.
What have I overlooked? What gets you rattled when it comes to applying for a job or interviewing?
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